MIA 2: HCPA

*Originally recorded at First Christian Church of Albany, OR on August 1, 2024. Scroll down for slides.

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just try and keep your remarks under five minutes it doesn't have to be a question that's fine um I am going to try to moderate as well as I can um but yeah I am joined behind me by uh mayor Alex of first oh okay okay uh Eric or Karina I'll give you the floor first if you'd like um

Eric I think you're muted right now do you have anything Karina um I just have a question it's more about I mean I like I like I told Logan I'm here to learn about this issue I'm not very vers on it obviously you guys are the experts in it um I'm relatively new to the office I'm still kind of trying to learn a lot of this thing so first of all thank you for having me here and going through that um presentation it was really helpful I a lot of notes and hi Alex hi Mayor Johnson um and um I I you know I'll bring that back to our staff and talk to our DC policy people um I would be very interested in getting a copy of that letter so that we know what has been sent in the past I I'm sure that we could find it but I think that it's just easier if you just email it to our office so that way um you know if you know one of the steps that we do take is you know also ask for um you know require an answer from the you know FBI or anything like that similar to that we kind of know what's been said in the past and we can be like hey you know that we know that you know the house sent you something you never responded you know what's up um obviously not in those words um so yeah that would be really helpful um and yeah I mean I don't have anything right now I'm just kind of trying to process everything obviously we're more than happy to engage in this further um and I will try to make the next um meeting as well so I can learn about some of the other issues you guys working on but I know that this is a priority for the senator and so with that I'm just going to let Eric uh make his comments or questions and if I come up with one I'll raise my hand um I have a couple of question well actually uh when you send the uh slides in the letter can you kind of put in um a a top three or top five things can do for you like if you get everything you want from the Senator's office what would you like to see um so if you could just put that in there just bottom line up front I would like to see you do a b c d and e you know uh so that's something that we can forward to DC so that we can uh conversate with them about uh what we can do and what we can't do um so that that'll be something uh but I do have some questions um it it it just so happens I just had this conversation the other day about whether or not this was a law whether or not military members were a protected class and we are, you know; military members service members are it just doesn't get enforced in the manner in which it should (@3:13:00) so um that's it's um it's a blessing for me to be in this this particular meeting um but I do have a couple of questions um and I'll keep it I'll I'll go as fast as I can um has this been um this been run across the desk of the Secretary of Defense the chief of staff or the SAR major of the army no is this no um have you thought about getting them in on this and something that they could look at and getting them in on this uh yeah yeah I can see that I I know Austin and George personally and and I can't say what they would or wouldn't do but I know that uh [Music] I think General George would this is something that he could easily get behind and I think that you know having their position and their rank behind this I think would be a good thing um if you s I'm sorry go ahead I was the 116th and 117th was when I was in Maryland and I did speak not as in-depth enough with the House and Senate Armed Forces Committee people I did um yeah uh but I I do recognize it as a clear issue of Readiness if someone like the Cincinnati guy he had to be uh witness protected for a certain amount of time like he's not going to deploy if he's under witness protection so it's a clear uh you know overlap but I haven't personally um I I can I can tell you personally I know that Colonel George would be interested because one of his uh company commanders was targeted when we were at Fort Campbell so um so he would I if if you send him an email with this information or whoever CC me on it um he I i' I can't say for sure because I don't want to speak for him but I think he would be uh um he would definitely be uh interested in it that's Colonel Randy George the only and I think General Austin as well or I guess he's not General in anymore um uh oh man I lost the I started running down like a journalist trying to find out information um one of the guys I did talk to that Travis Martin uh threatened Aaron Carter he was in Hawaii at scoffield at the time he said we get this stuff all the time and we send it up and that's what he did so we we know it's a problem but there's no name for it we don't we military's like oh this sucks it just sucks to be a vet or it sucks to be a soldier I'm going to suck it up and drive on but like that leaves the door open for the next guy to also get the same thing and so I think one of the things maybe is like yeah maybe putting something out da or DOD like for 15 years maybe you've seen something like this please report it don't report it to DOD reported to FBI um because there's a very fine distinction it says it in the law service members are not subject if if service member Texs another service member that's under UCMJ so it's a very important thing and you know service members are all protected and veterans are only for five years but yeah I imagine they would have a lot of interest in making sure this gets addressed yeah it's something a CID can investigate and then um uh Jag can uh enforce you know as far as active duty Personnel uh but then you know that's just something and you know the as the trickle happens and it kind of goes out you know it happens with active duty Personnel usually gets filtered out to to Veterans you know so if we start there it might actually the little drop in a pool might wave out to be something a lot bigger that pulls everybody in and all the boats rise up um formalizing what does that look like formalizing you know it you you use the term formalize and I was trying to conceptualize what that would look like um what does that look like the

formalize I don't know and if you don't have that answer I'm totally fine with that you can put it in the email when you send me that email uh you could put that in there I know I I throw a question at you and I don't mean to play I used to hate it when people play stump to chump with me in the military you know so if if you just if you could just shoot me that in the email just what does formalizing look like so that we can articulate it better um

has has there been any legal precedents that that cover

enforcement um I only know this through employment but if the U so I know of the administrative procedures act to hold executive agencies liable for not doing not enforcing and there's you know judicial review of executive action is gray um and the Congressional research service has done some homework when I started asking them about employment stuff but the doj I I haven't not that I know it's never been it's never been put in front of a judge where a judge had to make a decision on this in particular so there's no because you know if there's if it happens then a lawyer can go back and say well there's a legal precedent for someone doing this and once there's a legal precedent that has the law behind it it's easier to enforce so sometimes uh they will or someone will present something to the Supreme Court just so that it creates a precedent to make it easier to enforce later if you know what I mean you know what I mean so it that would be something to get a get an example case and get a lawyer behind it to um to to to do it and then just so that it can now be considered a precedent so getting a legal precedent makes it easier to enforce laters yeah um I'm right behind you the problem is that it's it's niche if you talk about veterans rights it's disability it's entitlement um ACLU NAACP legal defense fund I've tried them but they uh uh door set at LBCC he's he got an invite they would be I would imagine they'd be the ones to try and bring an action under 14th Amendment it hasn't

happened okay

um um if you can you uh in the email you sent one last thing I hate to create work for you but uh means of reporting um what would that look like to you as far as like means of reporting for what channels do you think that would need to go through if you could if if you had your way of coming up with an idea to make it happen you know how would you do it you know how would what would the means of reporting look like um bias crimes hotline here and uh I I spoken with them they heard of the stuff they haven't heard it just face that's what DJ she's a marine yeah uh when it comes to service members and Veterans it's like their eyes glaz over because they haven't heard of it but I spoke to biased people at the juneth celebration and at Albany Pride different people each time and they they were fascinated but they didn't know what to do uh last thing I have and I'm sorry for taking up so much time but the last thing I have have you spoke to uh Governor kotc or any of the state level uh legislators legislators yes geler blowen uh here in Albany and uh odva I've got I've got an application to be on the advisory committee and Keith kcow um has brought something before the governor just informally but nothing nothing on paper and just maybe trying to get this on the floor of the House of the State House September LED days or 23rd through 25th I'm G to be okay committing sometime on to talk about getting people locally to go to the ledge days so that they introduce it in January okay awesome that's all I have I'm sorry for making so long if you could just some of the questions I had if you could put that in the email to me uh it'll make uh Karina and I's uh you know when we reach out to DC it'll make it a little easier for us to uh explain and articulate what exactly you're trying to do so thank you very much sure that was Eric Davis Eric I know I'm normally security I know if I look familiar Alex okay uh Tim I saw you got your hand up

uh I just want to clarify real quick um when we're using the term active duty we need we also are talking about our national garden and reservists who are currently so they would be protected as currently serving even if they aren't exactly you know um like it's not their drill weekend or they're not in a deployment status but they're you know but they would they're still covered and we're still talking including them in that group when we talk we use the term active duty just as a generic term for the military s currently serving right now whether they're 247 365 or whether they're you know doing the the the Guard Reserve thing correct I prefer the term total Force however the way hcpa was written the soldiers amendment was written I'm not clear if Guardsmen and reservists are covered I'm I'm not clear clear but that stems from like the discharge thing like this was not a wellth thought out part of the bill that was added this was like sessions wanted to tank hcpa and he tried to make it heavier by adding the soldiers Amendment however it's law period And there's a supreme court precedent that makes that so so on the one hand yes they absolutely should be receiving protections on the other hand I'm not I'm not convinced that the way it's written they are protected Karina you had your hand

up uh yes so actually I'm glad that we're talking about the ambiguity around discharge um because I did note that when you were talking about it and if there is link like obviously we can't make any promises until we talk to um policy people but I would like to know what the language to clarify that around that usage of wording dist charge uh is what you what what you're looking for specifically and if you can include that in the email or if you you know still want to work through it we're more than happy to work through that with policy but I I I think that like that's a big highlight because I think um that that's also a big issue where like who gets protection stems from right um and so um if you could just include if you have proposed language um that we can send to our policy people so that way they can see like they'll come back if it works it doesn't but I think that' be a great starting point for us for there so if you can include that in your email if you have it that's great if not just make a note that you know you we we need to work on this um I'll make a note of it on our end as well and then um Eric was talking about the state level I know that you talked to Senator blue in and Keith who I know Keith um has brought it up but have you ever talked to any of the representatives who are or were active uh service members I'm thinking about like Paul Evans he's a big Advocate around U veterans rights um I know it's a passion project so maybe that would be a really good person for you to talk to um I I believe um doc uh there there's a couple other members that I could pull up Manning Manning Senator Manning um I know he he was um active duty and so that's also a very big area that he's very passionate about maybe this would be a really good conversation um to talk to to start that conversation at the state level I don't have contact with Manning but geler blow's office has been pushing stuff to them but I haven't heard back yet from man um okay per I mean I can I can help you get that information like uh the chief of staff's uh information then you can just directly um email them if that's something that you would like okay yeah follow up um any other questions comments concerns we have eight

minutes Welden Jeremy Nick Laura Eric you're muted sorry yeah I have to jump off I hate to do this this is absolutely uh good information I learned something and I'm going to do everything I can to try to articulate everything that we talked about look forward to the email uh it was a pleasure meeting everyone and um um I will see you again thank you thanks Eric thank you Eric and Karina for being on the

meeting any last minute Alibi from anybody else thank you um I see some uh Tim just put something in the chat um the reason I bring this up is grants for veterans you should only apply for those who serve fulltime or at combat deployment um

yeah so um if there yeah if you could bring up any of the issues of why like specifically around the clarification of the language discharge um and why like it needs to be changed I think that would also be helpful I don't want to monopolize the time so if anyone has a question please jump in um but I I do want to make this so that way we have the most information we can get you know get started on this work right um and so I think that that would be helpful of like you know at least a whole branch of just people who are not covered um it makes it harder for them to access resources and um stuff like that so that would be really helpful on on our on your end yeah obviously our policy people will have a lot more questions as well um there there may be a way to connect it to any incurrence of a military service obligation because that language is in federal law and it's a little bit more concrete than discharge Laura you're unmuted were you going to say something I just had a question of clarification so so it's my understanding that with the hate crimes protection part of the protection is tracking data and what you presented today you're saying that because there's no way for for fets to report the crime there's no way to track the data is that right yes okay I just thinking of like building a good case for this and it sounds like most of these are anecdotal or the cases that you found are you you did your own journalistic research of it it wasn't like you found these reports under some sort of protection for vets right and it's not clear to me you know lawyer legislator might know more but for some reason 4712 of it is its own thing but it's Then followed by the tracking requirements and it's preceded like I don't know how or why it gets isolated it is it appears as though that's not in the law but for whatever reason and there may it it may also be the case that the tracking requirements in section 4713 should also apply to 472 in which case you might have like a backdated complaint or an ACLU case saying look 15 years of data is lost because you've you've taken this out so I I don't know the answer to that question but it's it's one of the it's the same question I have right well and it's kind of makes the whole thing a catch 22 if you don't have data to back it up yeah I would suggest that um we have a second meeting so that you're not drafting this to Karina and Eric on your own Logan that were for folks who have the time and capacity to contribute to what they are asking like the the wants of the group um especially from vets or folks who have experienced this I think it would be helpful to to collaborate on that email that you sent yeah I think that's a good

idea anybody else may Johnson um I just made list of people I could talk to about this well I can text and have a meeting with them so if we want to do something local we can probably set that out okay that's great thank

you well I'm happy to release early as they say nothing like a a formation before cob I see your comment Wen thank you so much

all right no aliis I really appreciate everybody being on especially Karina and uh everybody else Mayor Johnson thanks for coming um I'll catch you on the flip side I I can stay on but feel free to hang up and I will follow up with the local folks shortly yeah thank you for doing this yeah appreci we'll see together next week for coffee okay